Castlevania and Anachronism

[opensummer]

Got a comment of history's longest suicide note pointing out that coffee drinking is anachronistic and I figured I'd write some meta on it. 

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SO I did actually consider throwing in a line about a speaker caravan having carried it back from the east and Sypha getting into it then but decided not to for two reasons. One is the handwavey something like 50% of castlevania is anachronistic, do not get me started on Trevor’s short sword it makes me want to tear my hair out, and therefore other anachronisms are more or less acceptable. 

Two, though, is the one I actually thought about, so hold on to your socks. So my theory of the castlevania world is that it doesn’t track with our historical development for three reasons.

1. Vlad Tepes the historical figure was born between 1428-1431 and died between 1476-1477. The action in the series kicks off with Lise’s appearance at the castle in 1455 and Dracula is explicitly stated as having been hundreds (if not thousands) of years old when he meets her, which means who knows what else they’ve messed with. 
2. Magic! They have magic that allows people to farsee, to teleport, and as sypha demonstrated the ability to use magic to clear land. Extrapolating from that I suspect they have lots of mundane uses for magic (building roads and house, creating timber, heating water, etc.) Because of those two factors I suspect that Castlevania’s world in 1475 was much smaller than ours was at the same time period. 
3. They clearly have some concept of globalism. Dracula’s generals are supposed to represent, as far as I can tell the Viking/Celts- Godbrand. India/Pakistan region- the female general in the headdress and sari? I think it’s a sari and the male general in turban. Hector is greek and Isaac is african. I personally like the idea of Moroccan!Isaac but I’m open to arguments there, and wiki tells me the disappearing female vampire’s name was Cho, which is a Korean surname. So I fall on the side of the argument that they haven extensive land networks. (And the reason that there are no New World Vampires is that they can’t cross the ocean to get there.) 

So I decided that Sypha as a nomad would have encountered coffee either through her own travels or be trading with another speaker caravan. Alucard, I decided was introduced to it by his mother, who got addicted when she first starting living with Dracula and he refused to tailor his hours to a human. So Lise discovered coffee as a way to make it through all the all-nighters she had to pull- Dracula’s Magical Kitchen has Everything, and never quite kicked the habit after. (Her pregnancy incidentally was the Actual Worst because she went eight months cold turkey. Her first request after naming Adrien was for a cup.)

My headcanon for Trevor is that after the Belmont Estate went up in flames, he did the whole soldier of fortune thing and never had the money for coffee and the few times he did, he spent it on booze instead. So Sypha and Alucard are both a little addicted and expect a cup in the mornings and Trevor takes good care of his husband and wife team by providing it to them. 

Comments

So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[bluewinged_songbird]

Oh gosh, oh gosh, between you and squelettique I feel absolutely rich in meta right now. Such a good, fulfilling meal! I only got a notification from you replying to my comment though, so that's one function Dreamwidth doesn't have.

A world in decline!! Hotdang that is a good take. It makes sense, it makes Lisa's quest not the persistent hope of a desperate idealist, but one founded on research and a consuming knowledge to know the truth. I love every single detail about technology that you all have going on, but what's the role of magic in this?

Is Jesus someone who gave humans the tools necessary to fight back? And though killed fairly early, his followers began the overthrow of their apathetic vampire overlords.

The speakers often struck me as more of a Romani analogue.

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[opensummer]

That’s good to know, I’ll have to find a way around that.

So I think Lise was upper middle class prior to running away to bang Dracula and likely educated enough to find all sorts of references to when humanity knew more.

So magic in Castlevania is mostly elemental and offensive, and it belongs to the educated class. A mage can cause earthquakes, create rain, snap their fingers for fire, and force choke someone but that’s the large part of their powers. A creative person could absolutely come up with some mundane utilities (irrigation, leveling land, fires without fuel in winter, etc.) but then it would be more of a life hack then it is transformative to the culture. Especially since mages seem to be in short supply and the church is down with burning witches.

(I’m cheating a bit by having wards be a thing, but order of ecclesia had glyphs, and portrait of ruin had magical painting so clearly we don’t know the full scope of magic)

So I think Jesus was the first crusade against the vampires that succeeded at least partially which is how the church got to be such a thing. Once you prove a thing can be done, more people will do it. And of course people succeeded in the past but I think that the vamps were pretty on it with a cull immediately afterward so those stories never got out. But the whole Jesus thing was too public and they were too apathetic to get on it.

So I kinda found them to be a mix of both, the caravans, historic persecution, and pograms were features of both Jewish people and Romani. I mostly lean Jewish because I like the idea of Sypha speaking ladino as her first language, hence the Spanish accent

And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[bluewinged_songbird]

Remember that breadstick meme? That's me with everything in this comment section because I'm shoving all the breadsticks into my purse.

Part of me thinks, that the Church burning witches has a lot to do with power too. Saints and witches are both women doing magic, one is just propping up the Church and the other isn't. With that kind of pressure on the average lay magician, they're probably honing it for defense or offense-as-best-defense. I do think, that since Castlevania is also primarily a really short action show, we're missing out on whether people use magic in other ways too. Amongst other things.

Women doing things, and doing them better than men, has always been a problem with the ruling institution of the day. I remember seeing witchy posts on how to use herbs and stuff on Tumblr and thinking that this was basic shit even my dad knows. But it was women herbalists who were being burned as witches, weren't they? That was a culture shock I had to quickly get over.

Both, both is good. The Speakers are a traveling people who have their own religion, that's enough grounds for persecution in those times. I'm not sure if I'm that comfortable with attributing a real world aspect of a marginalized group to a fictional group though.

Also, Happy New Year!

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[opensummer]

That too! we really need more than one magic user to grasp the scope of magic in this universe and i'm hesitant to lean too heavy into it cause that gets into limit breaks really quickly. I don't want anybody to be too OP'ed especially since we got all kinds of visual shorthand for how hard magic is in universe.

Yeah we can't even begin to estimate the knowledge we (western european culture) lost through the suppression of female herbalists/doctors/witches. Especially since most of those women only treated women.

you're right and you should say so. it gets cringey v quickly and i'm trying to avoid that.

Happy New Year!

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[bluewinged_songbird]

How many instances of magic do we see anyway?

1. Priests blessing holy water
2. Devil's Forgemasters
3. Sypha

There's also magitech like distance mirrors and the castle, I guess.

So Sypha and her battle magic (ice elevator being the exception) are the most we've seen of magic in their world. Which means there's plenty of room to play around with it! Go be OP! Go be mundane! There's 2 kinds of people

Thankfully people are gaining that knowledge back! Not as useful as modern medicine, but it's always nice to know.

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[opensummer]

That and we know Trevor’s first whip was consecrated and morning star is enchanted

Since you said that I’m going to have Sypha burn mana on the most mundane nonsense and then have her turn around and cast meteor when she curb stomps Carmilla

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[bluewinged_songbird]

Well unlike vidya games, a more realistic setting that isn't trying to limit the player would depend a lot on how she's proportioning her mana and also...exercise I guess? How often she uses her magic and stuff, like training muscles.

Sypha is the epitome of "get you a woman who can do both" meme.

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[opensummer]

There you go, all the training means she's built up her magic to godlike powers and can now retk anyone.

Sypha, smol bean who is soft and clever, but also Sypha, Magical Goddess

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[bluewinged_songbird]

Give her a couple more years and she could be close enough to one! Though, I think a lot of her letality is also in how creatively she uses her magic. She's mostly fire and ice based (moving the castle the only exception we've seen) but she uses them in pretty clever ways.

Righteous, strong, and brave, and totally willing to f*** shit up. No wonder those boys are smitten.

Re: And I'm feeling thankful in this chillies tonight

[opensummer]

Yeah she's figured out how to optimize her magic for offense which is pretty cool.

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[squelettique]

Well damn, now I'm gonna actually have to watch the show! *grumbles halfheartedly* Because I haven't quite gotten to the 'magic' part of the show. I got to the part where Trevor rescues Sypha (I think, my memory is a little fuzzy) but I sensed an incoming death-of-a-beloved-older-figure incoming and flinched away for a while but now I need to go back! Because I haven't gotten to the magic part! And I don't know if the church is against all those who use magic or just those who use magic and who are also women OR if all the ones who use magic are either Speakers or With The Vampires.

I'd have to watch the show to really dig into the specifics of magic and how it might have manifested in the world and how that might affect the timeline alongside the effects of vampires and super advanced (though hoarded) technology that most of the humans in the world might call magic anyway. Haha, so, as I am clearly out of my depth in this case, I'm going to bow out haha.

I'm really glad you enjoyed our gleeful discussion of meta, and thanks for the subscription too!~

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[bluewinged_songbird]

Historically, the Church didn't like competitors on the miracle market. Especially if those competitors were women unaffiliated with the Church. We do see priests and bishops blessing water that can harm vampires and the armies of the night in show, which is pure magic lbr. So both? Both is good.

Happy New Year and thanks for the subscription too!

Who did you think was gonna die?

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[squelettique]

I thought grandpa was gonna die, or the whole Speaker group, really. Sometimes I see people on screen and I start caring a little more about them than I should, so when they die, it affects me in a way that can be uncomfortable at times.

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[bluewinged_songbird]

They're fine. They're all alive and well even until season 2 as far as we know.

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[opensummer]

Speakers are safe and sound as far as we know.

Thankfully only two named characters die in the second season and both are antagonists

Re: So I'm loving everyone in this bar right now

[opensummer]

If you get around to watching and have thoughts i am always down to squee about this sort of stuff!